45 acp damage human body

Do any one you know carry just ball rounds in their handguns? by Kyle Mizokami Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the Got to love 45 in Army Guard 21 years. I would go with the 38 Super + P. Now you have something to rely on. Either work for me, and if I had to choose only one it would be 9mm just for the capacity. Think the title of this article is misleading. PS: I forgot to mention that as a SAW gunner I was allowed to carry an old .45 (Springfield Armory). Massive blood loss is much more likely with deep penetration and damage to vital organs. Last summer had a large male black bear tried to enter my camper. One thing to note is that for more most applications the military is restricted to FMJ loads. The same companies make the 45acp and other calibers! There are four major handgun founding factors. I think its preference and if you can conceal it. Fire Rate: 240 rounds/minute. While 9mm is not as good at killing men as the 45 Auto, it is smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to handle, and allows more opportunities to miss the target.. But Im my opinion, they are tools! 45 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase D.R. When they strike, the bullets rotate, and more of their surface hits the body. 9mm Luger offers greater magazine capacity and less recoil/more weapon control at a lower cost. I just had to get my 2 cents in. Your tax-deductible donation to The Trace will directly support nonprofit journalism on gun violence and its effects on our communities. Every round has its purpose. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. ACP The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. Give SOCOM GLocks which shoot 9mm (Glocks are great guns and I dont have a problem with the 9mm, great cartridge especially with all the advancements over the last 30 years) as I was saying problem solved. But a high-muzzle weapon shatters that bone into hundreds of microscopic pieces, in a way that cannot be repaired. Love reading your stuff. For the spray and pray that they teach nowadays the high cap 9mm is good. All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. Which might had something to do with losing the Revolutionary War, where Americans used guerilla tactics. .. maybe for some people the 45 is too much power,. Along that line of thought, I bought my tiny little 24 year old niece a pistol when she moved to Kansas by herself. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. These are the only two factors you can expect to remain constant in any situation. Another reason why in war officers loved the 45 as for close infighting it usually too just 1or2 shots to land the enemy on the ground. But if stopping power is your only indicator of success in battle, then I suggest a WWII 16 inch navy rifle same as the Battleship Missouri ! And I can certainly understand WHY you would be led to thinking that switching to the Glock 21 would improve your chances of getting a stop. Type of ammo, stopping power, number of shots, shot placement, kick back, does the gun fit your hand, and whether your cheap crappy gun jams on you these are all part of the equation. Would the same shot with More bullet have made a difference i think not. However, for the civilian this is generally an impractical plan for a variety of reasons. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. It has never failed me and conceals extremely well. Ive never liked Glock its sure a well made gun but definitely NOT the best gun Ive shot. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. In the black powder days hollow points had not been invented yet and most bullets were round nose lead so the larger heavier bullet hit harder. (As my Sr. DI liked to say Two in the chest, and one in the head, then youre pretty damned sure that the bastard is dead.. Now that you know where I am coming from. The 1986 FBI Miami shootout between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers was the deadliest and most violent shootout in FBI history. Even long range shots! I even tried to do the same test with my Tuger SR9 compact and it was a worse outcome than the Walther. The rifle round, which is longer than a pistol projectile, likely also began tumbling after its point collided with his hip. 10..again 10 rounds landed on target. F=MA is F=MA. Shooting survivors and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son expensive protein shakes after he lost much of his stomach. 45 guy and .357 mag lover . Just as in the case of the military, my agencies biggest determining factors for this decision were not anything to do with the performance of the rounds or the effectiveness for the safety of the officer. If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. Both forget one major factor. He died in our E.R. arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? Was the 357 mag. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. Rhee explained that the more massive the projectile, the more severe the wound. Everything from grip, shooting stance, limp wrist-ing and recoil spring pressure was examined. you should read TIFU my boss shot me reddit. It was just announced by Smith & Wesson last week that they are out of the running for the contract. Shot placement is often cited as a consideration when choosing the right handgun for self defense and for good reason its definitely important. After reading comments from many veterans here, and from what ive seen on the streets, in a true life or death situation give me the largest slug possible. You probably wont feel as much pain in your hands or joints when the rounds go off as when youre practicing on the range. But I think your decision is not based on any real scientific backing and is more rooted in confirmation bias than anything. More rounds the better. Gunshot Wounds When all else fails, when the rounds fail to stop the bad guy, then you need time on your side. Anything else is a simple failure to prepare. It appears now we have had to Dumb Down our .45cal. Thats a problem, because the force that continues to propel the bullet has essentially been wasted, not transferred to the target. Beats. Its too small. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? The role of the gun industry in Americas gun violence epidemic. Wilderness Arena Just carry what YOU feel most comfortable with and shoot the best with as shot placement is most important. It turns out, however, that things arent that simple. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. I think the armchair warriors need to think about how a pistol is barely effective in military situations. During the shootout, Special Agent Jerry Dove fired a lightweight, high-velocity 9mm round that struck murder/armored car robbery suspect Michael Lee Platt in the upper right arm. I carry a 10auto. What a joke! Category:Human body The test results disclosed that the .45 round displaced an average of 4.22 cubic inches of tissue, the 10mm round 4.11 cubic inches and the 9mm round 2.82 cubic inches. Youll shoot how you train is one, but many dont train. Shot placement rules. I do like the capacity of the 9mm for in town carry and lighter weight than my Govt model 45s. I prefer 45 revolvers. Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo Bullet was military Ball. Tearing and rupturing is common in tissue surrounding the wound channel. It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. Just how common are self-defense uses of firearms? While psychological factors incapacitate more assailants than physiological factors, they are also the primary reason for a failure to incapacitate. I seem to recall reading in Rangemaster newsletter a month or two ago an FBI paper making the FMJ case. 3 rounds all center mass within 2 inches of each other. Four ribs had essentially turned to dust. The latest in 9mm bullet tech performs much better than in the past on windshields. And the quicker the better when someones fanning a gun at you. A 4 inch Redhawk 45 colt loaded with 24 grains of H100 under a 335 grain Cast performance sledgehammer should be good against the largest carnivore Todd. Even later to the conversation but figured Id throw my ring in the hate. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. The SEALS sure like their 45 acp, Mark 24 pistols (HK45 compact). However, it does suffer from the same issue as the .40s&w, and that is that its snappier in its recoil impulse. Project: Aftermath Wiki. There was no blood on the floor below him. It is also logical to assume that when the larger round enters a major body organ, the negative impact upon that organ will be more significant. Knock down power. One week later the detective in charge advised me that papa lived, walked out of the hospital and back to Mexico. Maybe .22 LR? Sorry for the lengthy comment just my humble opinion. But the major difference is that you would have been 2 rounds away from having to reload as compared to 6 rounds in the case of a Glock 17. A forum community dedicated to all 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. What causes more damage, .45cal pistol or 5.56 mm rifle? When a lot of agencies began switching to 9mm from .45 ACP and other heavier calibers, something became very apparent: the FMJ 9mm at high velocity tended This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. If one of these conditions occurs, the human body should induce a counterbalance in the form of an opposite condition. With practice almost anything is possible. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. Wondering if these Marine special operators are not only allowed but required to carry exclusively the 15-round Glock 19, why not the slightly larger and higher capacity Glock 17? Of course there are but in general the .45 with its bigger slower round is the better choice for knockdown power. Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? First off, its important to understand what the term refers to. Glad you are doing well. Then get ready for a gunfight. the difference between a 45 and a 9 millimeter and a couple milliseconds of reaction time, it really depends on the situation and again, personal preference. However, there are two factors virtually everyone agrees on: 1. You know, Indians killed each other, white settlers, and hunted with a bow &. With those factors in mind, Id prefer one of the calibers most likely to immediately incapacitate and prevent return fire. So its purpose is based on design. The wider bullet also creates a bigger cavity in whatever it passes through. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. Back then we all agreed the larger rounds had better stopping power. Firing Modes: Semi-auto. Ive carried about every size round in my 71+ years of which 36 was an LEO. I like both, so it is a matter of how balanced and comfortable is it when in use ? Fun to shoot a couple of hundred rounds at the range, without soreness. Among other things, this Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. .45 ACP is not the one-shot-stopping hammer that some people think it is. Where aim for the middle of the whole body. I am not sure why Ruger did not enter a weapon into the competition (like the new American pistol), but it could be that they looked at the RFP and made a determination that for some reason their pistols didnt fit the bill, or perhaps they decided it wasnt worth it. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. and manufacturers. I know some are going to maybe chuckle but when I want a deep concealed handgun, I go with my PF9 Keltec. Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. Great article by the way. This is accomplished through simple physics; a larger bullet imparts more force into its target than a smaller one. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. For a tommygun, I'd probably go with 1d8 base damage, +1 magical weapon bonus to represent penetration and damage, and the ability to make a cone area attack (save or take damage). Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. Penetrative powers of various types of ammunition - Ballistics But only weighed 140 lbs then. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. Any gun between 9 mil and .45 caliber is fine if you can conceal it, and employ it quickly and with reasonable accuracy. Chiverss history of the assault rifle, The Gun: In the macabre world of terminal ballistics, the study of what happens when projectiles actually strike, much can be made of over-penetration: the phenomenon of bullets passing clean through their targets. 1039 NE Loop 410San Antonio, TX 78209(210)-533-5431, 819 Hot Wells BlvdSan Antonio, Texas 78223(210)-533-5468, WE SHIP TO ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES, Copyright 2023 Durys Guns | Powered by Durys Guns. I just make it my business to shoot all handgun cartridges well out to 25yards. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. Which Id be inclined to think a .45 would transfer more force more immediately taking the spirit out of most. In other words slower bullet JHP more energy transferred more effective. No regrets. One person might be able to control themselves and squeeze off a headshot. There is enough blood within the brain at any time to support conscious, voluntary action for 10 to 15 seconds even in the event of the destruction of the heart itself. My neighbor saw that the guy was afraid of the thing and couldnt get back on target after the 1st shot due to the recoil and his flinching with every shot. The slower 45acp round FMJ will pass through but leaving more energy expended plus a larger wound channel so the same to a lesser degree applies to the 45 acp FMJ; but, if you have 45acp JHP in the gun usually one hit whether it be in the shoulder, leg or chest area game over. Im an athletic guy so handling the recoil is not too bad. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. There are many fine little Girls Guns in 380 cal. finds relevant news, identifies important training information, 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. ), and I can buy twice the ammo and get twice the practice. The average criminal etc. You might be able to talk to the first guy. Take this for what its worth. Not concerned with concealed carry. I sure do love 45acp though. A .223 is just 55 grains. I dont want a light fast bullet that will over penetrate and possibly injure or kill an unintended. Because its difficult to pack enough explosive powder into a cartridge thats supposed to fit within the shooters pistol grip, handgun designers typically try to increase firepower by sticking a bigger piece of metal on the end of a round. 15 round magazine is better than a 7 round magazine. I enjoyed reading all of this info but didnt once read the real reason the .45 was originally better at stopping than the .36 cal. My department stopped using them in 45 cal because there were enough malfunction to stop. As mentioned in the article, the terminal ballistics of the modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round but that is with modern 9mm JHP ammo. We cannot recreate these or even reliably use the data. 9mm Federal 150 grain Micro HST or Winchester 147 grain Ranger will expand 0.7", better than at least half the .45 defensive rounds out there (most common expansion is about 0.6", which is the same as many modern 9mm defense rounds), but there are also some.45 A 50-60gr 9mm bullet that obtains 2000 fps. Long time reloader right here as well which is why I couldnt believe when I read what I did in that other articleclearly someone that doesnt understand how these things work!! Love it. So that is where the saying and belief came from. Shot placement is the deciding factor. So In a effort to Cpl. And I suspect it could very well be the Sig P320 as it is the epitome of modular.. This type of damage is known as permanent cavity. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. He sure has screwed us military retires over the last several years! As a non operator and someone who cant get to the range much an article I read made sense to me as simple as it may seem. There are other similar handgun calibers, such as the .44 Special and the .45 Colt, and of course, the .357 SIG and 10mm Auto are As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. There will always by that guy who can take several shots before dropping, and there will always be that perfect head shot. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. And both my wife and my son HATE the Kahr (makes their hand hurt). Ive hunted with both 9 and 45. The ambulance took him away. 0.177" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 300 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. The pool of cartridges in the study are grouped which makes the data integrity less reliable but each group of larger calibers exhibit significant percentage better lethality. There were no exit wounds. A round put through the central nervous system of a target is likely to be incapacitating regardless of the caliber chosen. This story of a Chicago-suburb police officer should answer that one for you. ;p, I think someone is living in Television land, get real you might have shot one or chased a couple but routinely is in make believe land, quit lying just to talk. The quibble is over. The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than Practice drawing the weapon, aiming it, and firing. It has been reported by Heritage about how there are a number of personal protection gun uses that make the news in any given month, but are given a tiny fraction of the attention that mass shooters and other violent gun criminals receive. It is often said in sports talk, that the game is a game of inches. This is also true in life and death gun battles like the FBI Miami shootout. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. Whether it hits the shoulder, the leg, arm, hip, whatever. This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. To everyone thats been in a shooting with a .45 Auto, and they say, Thank goodness it was a .45 because I only had to use one or two shots. Its just confirmation bias. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. Any weapon is only as good as its owner, making the person behind the trigger the single greatest factor in how much stopping power a gun ultimately yields. Riley has trained extensively under instructors such as: Rob Leatham, Mike Seeklander, Tim Herron, Scott Jedlinski, Matt Little, Kyle Lamb, Dave Spaulding, Jeff Gonzales, Bill Blowers, Chuck Pressburg, and others, amassing many hundreds of hours of formal shooting and tactics training. I will address the people shooting the weapons in the military. Im in the process to actually buy one. The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. Of course shot placement is important. I carry a Glock 19 with 15+1 and am quite crafty with it. Experiences on the streets say otherwise. quick defense trigger and has an extended 17rnd clip. They ability to kill. Witnessed it first hand. A more accurate equation is (terminal) Energy, defined as 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared. I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. John I agree, the Browning Black Label in 380 ACP is a superb gun. Then, theres the venerable .357 magnum, which, though smaller than the .44, comes roaring out of a barrel at speeds as high as 1600 FPS. So youre that guy safe at home on the computer. While there are uninformed opinions regarding stopping power, thankfully, there is also plenty of credible research. Small, light, and more rugged than a lot plastic guns. I think everyone should think back to why the 1911 was made. This was not a good CC carry eather so for a while I did not carry CC. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Other than for general interest, this type of test is of little use in the scientific examination of firearms-related situations. But with the way things are going today I decided it was time, so I just bought S&W M&P 9 Shield. Now as far as the technology of rounds go, technology has improved for all of the basic calibers including 45 so there is no advantage there for the 9. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. The FBI just did the same thing. I carry a para-ordinance warthog in 45 when its cold.I shoot the gun enought to know I can hit what Im aiming at. Now good defensive hollow point is a different story. He is the current USPSA Carry Optics Colorado State Champion and most recently won 3rd place in Master Class at the 2022 USPSA Carry Optics National Championship. So In a effort to accommodate all soldiers they switched to a milder recoiling 9mm round. You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World They're just as important as the gun that fires them. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. But the modern bullets are getting better all the time! Your shot placement will be perfect. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! I like it and am very comfortable pulling the trigger in as high stress of a situation as training allows. However, the .45 would likely be stopped from penetrating but there was a 30% chance, with good shot placement its energy could stop the heart. Just came down from AK and bears and mad moose have been my biggest issue. The 9mm is being adopted by military and law enforcement due to its higher capacity and lower price, as well as the reduced recoil which increases accuracy for many who find the .45 a bit much to handle. Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. Robert MacNemerra knew nothing about firearms but his decision that the AR-15s chrome lined bore and chamber was a needless waste of money brought a whole lot of grief to a whole lot of people. Practice, practice, practice. Ive shot so many different weapons, started at the age of 11, hunted most of my life. We were trained with a .45, to protect the patient. A 45acp will deliver more damage to a human body that a 9mm. LE, south LA and Watts for 8 1/2 out of 15 years. And Im not always concerned with concealing. 9mm, I carry 147 grain Hp. Case in point, a 1600lb bull mooseshot 3 times at 50 yards with a .338 magnum. the legendary .50-cal. actually kills A tenured officer responded to a violent male mental on a *TD bus. All of this leads directly to the question of handgun wounding factors: the effectiveness of a handgun, lethality by caliber, and stopping power are all important considerations when purchasing a firearm for self defense. The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. Cyst fluid rich in lipids and inflammatory factors is a characteristic pathological manifestation of ACP and may play a very important role in hypothalamic injury caused by tumors. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. Now thats hilarious. Some of the best handgun calibers for self defense are: To adequately understand the efficiency of incapacitating a target, we must have some basic understanding of the mechanics of wounding how damage to the human body works. Now let me add a little something about 9mm vs .45. Will that hollow point still have the same effect? WebThe Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. You can have all the knockdown power in the world but unless you place it thats going to do the most damage then it doesnt matter if its a 9 millimeter or 45. Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. I like the P227 better. Do your thing, your responsible for your actions! We were already running +P for our 9 9mms. These features, along with superb marketing efforts, have made the 9mm the round of choice, not only for the armed forces, but also for most police departments in the U.S. I however still allowed to carry a 45 and, will as long as I am able to. We do, however, have reliable information from labs with regard to how much tissue rounds destroy. Officer Needs Help!!! This pits apples to apples and will once and for all lay to rest all this ludicrous debate. I don't know about you, but my .45's seem to be plenty accurate, certainly as precise as any of my 9mm pistols. Mayo Clinic